Here is an interview I did with Christopher Messer, the co- founder of Float On, a floatation tank center in Portland Oregon. I did this interview as research for my upcoming book DIY Magic, and somewhere I have the full transcript which is much longer, and will probably put that up at some point too. Christopher is a real visionary and a lot of fun to talk to.

Does the law of diminishing returns apply to floating?

It’s an endurance thing. The longer you float the more you’re in Theta waves. And the more lucid you’re going to get. This is the same thing the Buddhist monks are trying to do. But this is it without falling asleep and getting the rap on the shoulder with a stick. When there is no external stimulation, the internal mind has to take over. I’ve done a 13 hour float, and it just keeps going and going. Thought goes away, identity goes away. It’s about effortless doing.

I hate technique. The tank is all physiological. Your autonomic nervous system takes control. 98% of everything you think about is repetitive anyway. You don’t need it. If you were on a deserted island for long enough, thought would go away. The minute thought stops, presence takes over. The tank kills thought without effort, without technique. Our whole culture is based on technique.

So thought just becomes unnecessary, like flippers on land?

Thought knows that the minute it stops, presence takes over and thought dies. And thought will do anything to stop that. That’s why the tank is so perfect. You can’t directly get rid of thought. It has to leave without effort. It’s like a surrender, but don’t make it into a technique. Our whole culture is about becoming — you gotta get to the next level, “I got to get the degree, I got to get the house . . . .” Well good luck with that, ‘cause it’s just made up anyway! The only time you’re truly happy is when you’re just being.

What would a culture look like where everybody floats?

That’s my dream. Our culture is about change from the outside in. But you change it from the inside out and it’s going to work. It’s funny, remember the Skylab in the 70′s, after the Apollo missions? They had these Americans out there floating in space, and they’d have Russians come out. But sometimes guys would be alone for weeks at a time. And mission control would call them and tell them to do stuff. Well, mission control found that they would do the tasks slower and slower. And then mission control would tell them to do stuff and they wouldn’t want to do stuff. And then mission control would call them and tell them to do stuff . . . and they would turn off the intercom!

You get space happy. It’s called break off point. Same with the U-2 spy planes. They’d be up there on the edge of space. Close to zero gravity.  And they would just lose interest in earthly things. They would stop believing in nationalism and just say – oh, well there’s the planet.

The floatation tank is still a fairly new device. Do you think people are going to come along and try to attach different techniques and codified ideas to the experience?

Well, it started out very scientific. But it very quickly became a mystic experience.

So yeah, people have used different techniques with floating: cyber vision, listening to learning tapes, holosync stuff. You can add on things, but personally I don’t like that. There’s nothing better than nothing. It’s so simple.

For millions of years we were just hunters and gatherers. We are not built for all of this. Language and time and self. That’s all brand new phenomena. When thought first came in, people thought they were hearing voices. Language started as a way to warn people. “Hey! There is a mountain lion behind you!” This evolved into language, but somehow along the way identity got involved.

Once you have language you can create an external analog of everything.

Yeah ­– I’m separate from everything else. I’m better. Then you’re getting into counting, keeping track of stuff, counting what you own. And the rest is history. I think once we got into agriculture that’s when we took a wrong turn.

So it’s New Year’s Eve. What’s the future of floating?

Consciousness just wants to become more consciousness. This is what the tank is doing. There are areas that were once unconscious, and consciousness is saying — I want to be here. We used to be in the Information Age. Now we are in the Communication Age. Consciousness is expanding itself. And the float tank fits that perfectly. Floating is just a way to get back to your natural state.